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Post by Phil Kalbfell on Oct 15, 2012 16:02:18 GMT -5
I will see of I can borrow the book that I had on loan and scan the images,probably not much better for detail. I agree with Mark that the pic he posted is most likely at the GP with the advertising covered up or removed.
The Comstock cars looked great with the mid green colour against the white.
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Post by Aurora on Oct 15, 2012 22:40:52 GMT -5
Thank you for the logo details - all my internet searches had been fruitless.
Phil, you've made a decision for me. I was debating whether to use plain old "Green" for the Canada logo, or a lighter shade. But the standard green is awfully dark, so mid green it is, and I'm off to the store for a jar of Tamiya "Park Green".
The car as it raced at Watkins Glen may be lost to history. I found a forum in which a gentleman claimed to be restoring the car, and he was seeking information about the configuration as it raced in '63. The present nose and engine cowl are quite different from the '63 car. It appears that the nose was sectioned and a larger nose was fitted. The engine cowl is different, and it is difficult to determine what the original cowl looked like.
I've had enough difficulty trying to shape the current body. The original body would have been almost impossible. As it is, it doesn't look quite right, but with the correct livery and some logos, it should at least be identifiable as the Mk IV.
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Post by nuvolari on Oct 16, 2012 5:19:57 GMT -5
Hi, This discussion about colors is something I often see, but it seems to me that nobody here has ever heard about "Scale Effect". I started model building with plastic model kits, to those group of modelers aesthetics are very important, and to the professionals adapting Scale Effect onto their models is a standard practise. The idea behind "Scale Effect" is how the human eye translates color to the brain. We are able to see color due to reflexion of filtered light. This means, that sunlight exist out a spectrum of colors, this can be broken and seen with a prism, a natural phenomena of this is a rainbow. Now when light hits the surface of an object, the pigments on that surface are going to absorb certain colors and reflect others. This actually means that when we, for instance see red, the surface absorbs all colors except red, that is then reflected to our eye and translated into the brain. The intensity of the color is determent by the amount of reflection we receive in the eye. This means that if we are standing in front of a very big panel that is red, we'll see it bright, light and vivid, while if you put the same color on a very small object, we'll see it dark and less vivid. So if we take this knowledge about Scale Effect to our model, this means that if we use the same color on our model, it will turn out darker than the real car, although the color is identical. The trick what we can do to avoid this, is to make the color lighter on our model, by adding white. So what a few people have done, is to try and determent how much lighter the color should be and they came up with following list. •1/32 - add 7% white •1/48 - add 10% white •1/72 - add 15% white •1/144 - add 23% white I found a side that explains what I'm trying to say here: www.cybermodeler.com/color/scale_effect.shtmlI hope this information will be useful to help you with dark matters  Cheers, Danny |
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Post by Aurora on Oct 16, 2012 10:17:00 GMT -5
Interesting that you bring this up Danny. Thanks for the info - it info would be useful, if only I knew how to mix paints  When I was thinking about which green to use, I did exactly what you mention - mixed some colors - to try to get the correct shade. I had some jars of blue, yellow, and white paint that were labeled as "Suitable for colour mixing theory". So I mixed a tiny bit of blue with yellow, and got a very nice green. But it was quite dark, so I dropped in some white - and ended up with a pale olive green! Not very close to the shade I want, which is a brighter shade. It would not have been suitable anyway, as the paint appears to a type of water color, and wouldn't stick to the plastic. I've also tried this before with Tamiya acrylics, but no matter which colors I mix together, I always end up with brown mud! |
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Post by Peter Seager-Thomas on Oct 16, 2012 10:58:10 GMT -5
I had not heard of the 'scale efect', but it does make sense.
Since we all percieve colours differently I imagine we would all therefore come up with a different scale effect colour, though quite rightly perceiving it to be correct.
I think.
Peter
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Post by nuvolari on Oct 16, 2012 19:39:08 GMT -5
...So I mixed a tiny bit of blue with yellow, and got a very nice green. But it was quite dark, so I dropped in some white - and ended up with a pale olive green!... . ..It would not have been suitable anyway, as the paint appears to a type of water color, and wouldn't stick to the plastic... ...I've also tried this before with Tamiya acrylics, but no matter which colors I mix together, I always end up with brown mud!... Hi You've given here 3 problems Your first problem is about the Scale Effect. The most important lesson about Scale Effect is to make a color lighter depending on what scale you work in. The appliance of white doesn't always work, reason for this, can be the quality of the paint, the pigments etc.. There for, a good tip, experiment with a small quantity, write down what you mix. In your case 6% yellow and 1% white would have probably done the trick. Your second problem is the quality of the paint. Working with different brands, difference oil- and water based, the thinners you use can all lead to disaster. So, try to stick to one paint system and know it's features and limits. If you must work with a mix of water-and oil based paints there is one important rule to stick to: apply first water base and then oil based no problem. But the other way around doesn't work. And your third problem is to find a paint that suits you. If you always have problems with mixing, perhaps it's better than to go to a specialized car paint shop. Explain to them for what you need it for. Make sure the paint is qualified for the material of your model is made of. Ask what primer to use, and how to finish. Very important, if you want to airbrush the paint, make sure you got a thinner for that particular paint. Even for Humbrol I had the best results to stick to their thinners. And if you got a very good paint shop they are able to calculate in the Scale Effect. Otherwise I would advice to stick to a good Model paint, water or oil based, make a paint stock of the most common paints and specific to your model. And try to find a color out of the by you chosen model paint system, that matches at least 95% the color that you want. I also have seen you've masked your model already, don't leave the tape to long on the model, the glue of the tape could damage your model over a long time. Good luck with your paint job. Cheers, Danny |
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Post by Mark Huber on Oct 16, 2012 19:40:17 GMT -5
Okay Danny, but let's get down to brass tacks here.. What's the correct scale effect for BRM Green in 1/32? After all, no other colors (or colours) really matter.  Seriously, Very interesting post and given what I've seen of your work, I'm very receptive! Cheers, |
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Post by nuvolari on Oct 16, 2012 19:51:24 GMT -5
According to the system, in scale 1/32, 7% lighter than the original paint of the car.
Mind you 7% is not much, you hardly can see it, but it makes the difference.
and in case of this green I rather would replace the white by yellow.
but like I sad do some test first it's not 100% rocket science.
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Post by Chris Wright on Oct 17, 2012 12:36:56 GMT -5
Hi Danny,
The colour theory is correct. I in a previous existence used to construct Stand-off Scale Radio Controlled aircraft.
Now stand-off scale means the the aircraft was placed in the center of a circle, and the closest the judges could get to the plane was about ten ft or 3 meters or so.
So now if you imagine that ten feet in say 1/10th scale you be looking through a scale 100ft of atmosphere.
Atmosphere has a colour, (look at the sky on a clear humid day, and then on a clear non-humid day, it is noticeably a darker blue on a non humid day.
So to emulate this effect we would mix white paint in with the final fuel proof clear-coat, and spray that on, over the entire plane, decals and cockpit canopy included. It gave the illusion of correct distance.
It works.
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Post by Aurora on Oct 20, 2012 9:16:13 GMT -5
I can wrap my head around "scale effect", but haven't mastered color theory. I wasn't able to produce the correct shade of green, so I bought a jar of mid green, and it looks the part. Just wrote up my final punch list, and it has 39 Steps. @*#&!  That's too much to do for one day, so I'm gonna relax tonight and watch a Hitchcock movie instead. |
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Post by Aurora on Nov 6, 2012 11:33:14 GMT -5
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Post by Mark Huber on Nov 7, 2012 1:22:30 GMT -5
Outstanding modeling! Your car would have won the VRAA Concours. Well, let me be slightly less strident. Had I been judging the VRAA Concours, this car would have won that event. However, just to confirm my opinion, as I did see the other cars up close and in person, you probably should send yourStebro to me here in Montana for final verification. I'll have it back to you after Christmas. |
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Post by nuvolari on Nov 7, 2012 4:01:33 GMT -5
You've done a nice and original build, congratulation on the result. Hope to see a few more of these builds in the future Cheers, Danny |
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Post by f143 on Nov 7, 2012 4:40:53 GMT -5
Once again, terrific modelling Matt
Regards
Nigel
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Post by slo on Nov 7, 2012 7:13:50 GMT -5
That is very well done ! |
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When I was thinking about which green to use, I did exactly what you mention - mixed some colors - to try to get the correct shade.
That's too much to do for one day, so I'm gonna relax tonight and watch a Hitchcock movie instead.
