Post by Peter Seager-Thomas on Jun 2, 2012 3:22:48 GMT -5
This is my latest project.
Photo courtesy of the Le Zebre website.
The Delage 2LCV was built to comply with the 2 Litre regulations current at the time, and first ran in 1923 with a 4 cam V12 engine. New cars were built for 1924 where there was some success, and then the cars were further modified, including supercharging for 1925, the first year of the Manufacturers World Championship.
Entered for just 4 championship events, only 3 were attended. A 1st and 2nd in the French GP (Alfa withdrew after the fatal crash of Ascari) was followed by a 1st, 2nd and 3rd at San Sebastian, an event marred by the death of Paul Torchy in the 4th Delage.
The picture shows Torchys car prior to the race.
The model is still in the planning stages really, though the first parts are making some progress. Wheels! Next week should see the arrival of new etches and rims for the scale 21” wheels. These will be of the correct beaded edge type and will be of the ‘see-through’ type, where the spokes (under tension) will actually support the model. Wider than scale rims will be fitted with Carrera Auto Union/Mercedes tyres.
The chassis will initially be in brass and will follow prototype form. The undertray will be in aluminium with the body in fabricated styrene. If all works out, resin will come into the picture.
I’ll probably do another ‘Reference’ thread for the original pictures.
Post by Peter Seager-Thomas on Jun 2, 2012 17:08:21 GMT -5
Here is the format the chassis will almost certainly take.
This chassis was made for a P3 Alfa Romeo. The Delage is similar though the rails should taper just behind the front spring rear mounts.
The front and rear chassis 'cross tubes' will be used, whilst the intermediate tubes will be replaced by motor mounts and prop shaft mount.
One of Chris's Beardog motors will sit just forward of the mid-way position. The recently completed light blue Bugatti has a weight distribution of about 45/55 front and rear which seems fine, so I'll aim for something similar on the Delage.
Post by Chris Wright on Jun 2, 2012 19:02:27 GMT -5
Peter, you raised the bar yet again. I've always wanted to build a vintage car that way, the way the real car was built. I know that when it's completed, along with your fantastic wheels is going to leave even the pro's speechless- well me anyway.
Post by Peter Seager-Thomas on Jun 3, 2012 5:56:53 GMT -5
I've searched high and low and all of the drawings to be found are obviously based on the same origins, including one in 'blueprint' form.
The number six and the car format shows this drawing to be based on the Albert Divo car from Montlhery in 1925. (It has been said that Divo later took over the Benoist car in which he won the race.)
The tyres (widths) are drawn oversize, and coincidentally the same width as those I will be using. The wheelbase and front track dimensions are in approximately the correct ratio, thus the wheelbase dimension has been used to scale the drawing. The rear track is way out and should be (full sized) 4" narrower than the front. Rear chassis width and rear spring width are about right.
The body is too wide.
The first error which concerns me is the chassis. The original drawn plan view of the chassis shows the taper starting from the front axle line. Photos show this to be wrong, the straight line from the front of the chassis running back to the bonnet side I believe are correct.
Pedantic, yes, but I may as well make the effort to get it right now, rather than wish I had done so at a later date.
Post by Peter Seager-Thomas on Aug 16, 2012 15:08:00 GMT -5
Work has now just about started.
Initial efforts are to be concentrated on the running gear.
The wheels will be based on my 21" open/see through wheels, using the special steel hubs at the rear, and standard aluminium hubs at the front.
The rear assembly must of course permit drive from the axle to the wheels. A special batch of nickel silver etches were made to permit easy (soft) soldering of the centre etch to the steel hub. With this done, the wheel will be jig assembled. Clamping of the hubs to the axles will be done using a brake drum as a clamping ring, coursesy of two opposed 2mm grub screws, the screws being possibly covered by separate finned sleeves. The axle will run in two flanged ball bearings.
The front axle will be a little more complex. The wheels are simple and will be built much as some RTR 'spare wheels' which I have been asked to make in the past, with the exception that again, it must be jig built to ensure true running. This axle will be steered. I had some etched steering knuckles made a while back and these will be mounted on a steel axle. Peened onto the steering knuckle will be the wheel spindle, and mounted on this will be the front wheel bearing, a 5 x 8 x 2 ball bearing. Mounted on the outer race will be the aluminium brake drum, which houses a steel spindle on which is mounted the wheel assembly.
I'll add a few drawings and pictures in due course, but for the time being, have a think about the descriptions.
A few of the parts are shown below.
The front brake drum is an earlier version with integral wheel mounting spigot, whilst below it to the right is the new separate spigot, made in stainless steel. Below and to the right is the bearing to be used. The rear wheel hub/etch assembly is bottom left (I must wash the next one after soldering to get rid of remaining flux) whilst bottom right is the hub on its' own.
Post by Peter Seager-Thomas on Aug 17, 2012 14:43:54 GMT -5
A little progress.
Axle and assembled hub/drum, then below right to left, wire wheel hub, brake drum and drum fin sleeve/screw cover.
The brake drum has yet to be drilled and tapped, and of course most of the wheels are missing...
The actual axle used will be a ground one to ensure true running. I'll be looking at ways to tone down the finish of the aluminium parts, and will 'test' a few bits in various substances to see what can be achieved.
Today the correct bearings arrived for the front assemblies, so work will start on these next week.
Post by Peter Seager-Thomas on Aug 20, 2012 15:35:43 GMT -5
A little progress on the front hubs, this is a prototype and only the steering knuckle and wheel spindle/inner bearing mount will be used.
The external dimensions of the brake drum are 12mm, the same as those used on the rear drum assemblies, but all in one piece.
The brake backplate remains stationery so brake linkages are a possibility. The one shown is machined from dural bar, but I'll be looking at making them from litho sheet, reducing the thickness by half and thus permitting a thicker face for the brake drum.
The steering knuckle is in 0.008" stainless, and whilst a bit flimsy to start, once soldered up, they are pretty rigid. The hollow wheel spindle will be peened over, sandwiching the backplate between spindle and steering knuckle.
The spindle just mounts one bearing, a 5mm x 8mm x 2mm open ball type. Sealed bearings would be a half millimetre wider, thus requiring a wider drum. The backplate will keep most dust out.
The spindle was countersunk to allow for the modified hub mounting. The mounting will be pretty much as it is now, but the spigot will be extended to pass right through the wheel hub, with the wheel 'nuts' having holes drilled in them to fit, rather than using the standard spigotted nuts. It is also possible that the inner 'cone' may be extended as a shaft, to run inside the wheel spindle and thus reduce the load on the bearing and reduce the inevitable wheel 'rock'.
There's probably a bit more work needed yet. One main requirement is that repairs should be possible. Dismantling could have been tricky, but with the extra thickness proposed for the drum faces, no problems are expected. The hub fitted to this prototype is a 3mm one used on the Alfa wheels. The Delage will use a shorter, 2.25mm hub.
Post by Peter Seager-Thomas on Aug 20, 2013 13:44:00 GMT -5
Here’s the assembled axle, which still has a spot of finishing to do.
The brake backplates were not done in the intended litho sheet as a revised method of machining resulted in some pretty good 15 thou parts. The drums are now 10 thou wider to allow a little more thickness of the drum faces.
Assembly by peening was not a success, so parts were soldered. I thus will not have to drill out the bearing hubs on future parts
The picture below shows one of the objects of the exercise. The wheel is actually off a Mercedes.