Post by Mark Huber on Oct 19, 2012 10:31:22 GMT -5
Title: ...1 1/2-litre Grand Prix Racing: Low Power, High Tech Author: ...Mark Whitelock Published by Veloce ISBN Nr:... 184584016X / 9781845840167 Year of publication: .2006 Language: ...English quality of book: (softback, hardback) Hardback Classification: History of 1.5L Grand Prix Racing 1961 to 1965
The story of a Grand Prix formula that no British constructor wanted but a formula that British constructors and drivers would almost totally dominate during the 5 years of its existence. The book has over 200 black and white photos There are sections on the years, the constructors, the engines, the drivers and the venues. This is the reference book for the Half Tonners.
Personal grade from 1 to 10: ... 9 (I would give the book a 10 except Whitelock rates Moss as the best driver of THIS era over Jim Clark)
Post by Mark Huber on Oct 19, 2012 12:18:10 GMT -5
My objection to Moss being better than Clark, is that Whitelock's book covers the period from 1961-5. Moss won just 2 of his 16 Championship F1 victories during this time (both in 1961) as his career was cut short by the accident in early 1962. Clark dominated the 1.5L period in terms of victories, pole positions, fastest laps, etc.
As to whether Moss was superior to Clark when you look at both of them over their entire careers... (well, that's another matter), and I'm not going to say that Clark was the best (well, yes I am).
Any top ten list covering drivers from 1950 to the present day will spark a fair amount of disagreement. Here are my top two drivers for each decade. And that's pretty close to my top ten list all time which will always begin with Jim Clark.
1950s 1. Fangio 2. Moss
1960s 1. Clark 2. G. Hill
1970s 1. Stewart 2. Lauda
1980s Okay.. Controversy time 1. Prost 2. Senna
1990s 1. Senna 2. Schumacher
2000s 1. Schumacher 2. Alonso
2010s So far Vettel,
Last Edit: Jul 1, 2014 11:36:33 GMT -5 by Mark Huber
Post by Andrew Rowland on Jul 1, 2014 15:52:56 GMT -5
What's fascinating about your response Mark is the speed at which you made it (showing clearly you've thought this through before!), and of course your willingness to enter into such an emotive area....
Very brave of you.
It all depends what you are measuring against doesn't it? Stewart Lewis Evans was as quick as Moss some days and it turns out he was riddled with cancer whilst driving. Pretty impressive really.
I've always been impressed by Peterson. Didn't win any champonships but.....
Personally I can't understand why people think Senna was a great driver. If his car wasn't the best on the day he would just retire half way through the race. Was he was just lucky he managed to drive some of the best cars? Pretty much like Vettel now really. Humbled by a rookie just because the car isn't the best. Schumacher was brilliant.... at controlling the team and making sure he was top dog and never challenged in the same equipment. Plus he was a cheat so no time for him either (from a racing perspective - wish him all the best in recovery of course).
Alonso, Genius. Even in rubbish equipment he will plug away and get some points.
But depends what you like doesn't it? Out and out racer who wins or busts or the guy who thinks the whole season through. I'm a Rosberg man myself!
I have given the subject some thought (perhaps way too much) so I didn't have to think about my 'best list' for long.
The drivers I listed are not necessarily my personal favorites from each decade, if that were the case I'd list the following:
1950s: Alberto Ascari and Tony Brooks Both had style and grace and were darn fine drivers.
1960s: No change it's Jim Clark and Graham Hill with Jack Brabham a close third
1970s: Jackie Stewart (who bridged the 60s as well with his first year in 1965 and his last year in 1973) I put him the 70s because he won 2 of his 3 championships in that decade. Stewart had an impressive first 5 years notwithstanding that for two of those years (1966 and 1967) he drove very uncompetitive cars. My second favorite driver of the 1970s is Emerson Fittipaldi the first of the great Brazilians and the one who seemed to be a decent fellow both on and off the track. I don't have anything against Niki Lauda, I admire his tenacity but I never cheered for him (well I did cheer for him when he came back from the awful accident in 1976).
1980s: Keke Rosberg and Alain Prost. I know there are a lot of Senna lovers who detest Prost, but I think Prost was one of the smoothest, smartest and most scientific drivers of all time. And I'm not a Senna fan. Keke was a firebrand and had the coolest (note I didn't see neatest-- that would be Graham) mustache of all time in F1. Sorry Nigel.
1990s: I'm keeping Prost on the list although he retired before the decade was half over. I'm adding Damon Hill. Yes, I have a soft spot for both the father and son. (see the 1960s) They were determined , gritty and talented drivers who made the most of what they had against more "brilliant' stars.
2000s: Fernando Alonso and Jenson Button
2010s: I still cheer for Alonso. I'll have to wait till the decade is over before I pick my #2 favorite!
You'll notice that Senna, Schumacher and Vettel are missing from my personal favorites list. That's a ton of victories and 14 world championships, but I can't remember that I ever cheered for Ayrton, Michael or Seb.
Last Edit: Jul 1, 2014 21:41:05 GMT -5 by Mark Huber
I have to totally agree with the last sentence, after all it is Motor SPORT and those characters didn't behave like the gentlemen of the 60's and previous years. Now if the attributes of charm, wit and a general air of comedy were taken into account there would be only one man at the top of the list. He once said, I can't be serious about anything for more than 30 seconds,( or something like that). But he was serious about his driving, his record showing that. Without doubt my favourite driver, Graham Hill. Anyone who didn't have the pleasure of seeing him regularly on UK TV throughout the 60s and 70's missed so much about the man. Regards Nigel
Post by Andrew Rowland on Jul 2, 2014 16:11:01 GMT -5
Mine would have to be: 50's Vanwall (i guess I just did too much research and got too much into the whole story to be able to be impartial...) 60's Lotus 49 just love this car and again have spent far too long reading and re-reading Michael Oliver's book and of course it has THAT engine in it... 70's yep Lotus 72 80's Hmmm, can I get Williams FW07 or is that officially 1979? Love the simplicity of the concept. Otherwise FW12, my 'childhood' car, the first timeI was ever aware of F1..... Nothing that beautiful about it, just it belongs to my personal history....
Post by David Mitcham on Jul 2, 2014 17:24:02 GMT -5
I agree with most of the above but would have to throw into the mix Dan Gurney, Jochen Rindt and rate Lauda higher than Rosberg in the 70s. Maybe Gilles Villeneuve should be included although I do think Motor Sport magazine has something of an obsession with him. As for cars the Eagle Weslake has to be in there (at least as the most beautiful F1 car ever) and the Lancia D50 plus the Ferrari 312T and it's derivatives. Like Mark, Nigel and I suspect Andi, Schumacher, Senna and Vettel leave me cold, they are not in the same league as sportsmen and gentlemen as Moss, Clark, Stewart, the Hills, Fangio, Gurney and the others we have all mentioned as heroes and great drivers.